#FollowReader: The Genre Discussion

Last week we had a fantastic #followread discussion on Twitter.
As suggested by @Jane_l, the topic for the discussion was genres, and began with the questions: “Are genres helpful or limiting? Who defines the scope of the genre?”

I have to say I was rather pleasantly surprised at just how many people got involved in this discussion (we had well over 300 tweets in the hour long session), and I was delighted that there were such varied and interesting views on the idea of genres.

While it’s impossible to capture the whole dynamic and fun of the live conversation, I’ve selected some of the major themes (and some of the representative comments) that came up. To view all the tweets, you can click here. And, if it’s any indication, looks like #FollowReader discussions are going to keep getting better and better!

Thanks to everyone who joined in. We really appreciate each of you taking the time to participate.

The importance of genres to the book industry (publishers, booksellers, libraries, wholesalers, etc.) — how this is changing/morphing:

shayera #followreader Genre labels helpful to librarians. Patrons often are bizarrely picky about reading choices. Genre labels help them stay happy
janoda I believe metadata and keywords will surpass the importance of genres.My library has a tagcloud search function and it’s great
markrevans Yes, and multii-genre hard to manage physically. Systems are weak at this.
multi-genre obviously easier on web. the best stores do it, but it is a pain (two copies, cross merchandised)
PartSixofThree .@KatMeyer Booksellers shelve into the genre section where experience has taught them that most peop. will look for the book
momstravaganza I’ve had lots of customers and patrons pissed off about the “wrong” titles in “their” section.
ftoolan yet the standards for how books are categorized are retail based only… retail standards reflect the way retailers shelve their books. They drive how some wholesalers buy them.. however retail stds are not granular enough for online search & discovery because they don’t reflect the way readers think
markrevans .@ftoolan agree, not just granularity but titles that cross many genres, retail must pick one
momstravaganza #followreader As someone who has spent 2 decades putting stuff on shelves, sometimes you just have to pick a section and put the thing there
sruszala also issue of frontlist vs. backlist–easy to find stephanie meyer now in displays/front pages, but what about in 5 yrs?
ftoolan @galleysmith there are standards in place for publishers and libraries (BISG, LOC) but they can’t keep up with changes
markbloomfield pubs categ also reflects authors “input” – a much bigger factor to them than reader/bookseller consideration
PartSixofThree . @markbloomfield Absolutely true. Some suspense writers get livid if told they are “mystery” writers.
KatMeyer .@ftoolan and BISAC, etc. SOOO over complicated compared to something like cloud tagging.
PartSixofThree . @galleysmith The bigger an author is, the more clout they have as to where their books get shelved.
Tuphlos @PartSixofThree True. LA Banks got her bks moved out of Af-Am to area with more Urban fantasy bks SF/ or ROm depending)
ftoolan Baker & Taylor now does all their buying based on BISAC Category. if pub doesn’t label, no books get bought
bookavore Sorry to jump in, but at WORD we only shelve books under fiction and non-fiction for the most part—many customers love this
ftoolan @markrevans biggest weakness of any taxonomy, it’s opinion based, and not many people have the same opinions

How publishers use genres to reach markets (in both good and bad ways):
Tuphlos #followreader Genre labels are helpful, but not when genre really = marketing. Suspense vs. thriller vs. crime = what?
jane_l @Nobilis but what abt reader expectations. I.e. most rom rdrs expect HEA. Pubs R using label but not delivering the HEA
Nobilis @jane_l #followreader So are the pubs responding to readers, or attempting to shape the genre? Sounds like the latter.
jane_l @Nobilis I think pubs are trying to capitalize/exploit the genre expectation of consumers rather than “shape” it.
SmartBitches Personally, I resent the use of labels for sales purposes when book itself does not fit at all within that genre, esp romance
jane_l @SmartBitches I agree, but that’s the pubs attempt 2 “fool” reader. Genre labels serve as a filter. Can’t focus on 100 titles

How Readers feel about strictly defined or not strictly defined enough genres:

BookingIt I find genre labels helpful AND limiting. They provide me a useful clue, but not everything fits.
npilon I feel that genre labels are important for setting reader expectations regarding a book’s content.
galleysmith #followreader But who makes up the genre labels? My romance might be another persons chick-lit.
mikecane My sterotyped idea of “Mystery” kept me from reading it for years., Til I discovered Crime Fiction within it!
jimnduncan #followreader Things I don’t get: when suspense/thriller gets lumped into the general fiction shelves. Makes me not want to look.
jennsbookshelf @jimnduncan I agree. Definitely needs to be split up more. Horror gets own shelf, why not suspense/thriller
sruszala i shop new releases by label or shelf too–with so many books to choose from, how can you NOT have a start
SheilaRuth Genre definitions not always clear. Does dystopian fiction go under SFF? How about horror? Sometimes it’s lumped with SFF.

How tagging of digital content is changing the way genres are categorized, who is categorizing them, who is buying them, how they are buying them , and how this in turn could effect what gets published:

SmartBitches #followreader Are genre labels helpful? Yes, but I believe online shopping means genre labels will give way to keywords.
jane_l @SmartBitches I don’t think categorization will ever give way totally to metatags bc browsing is still impt buying activity
sruszala readers are creating genres in online venues–this is basically what tagging is, yes? like on library thing?
jane_l @BookingIt how will consumer meta tagging affect bookscan lists and the like? P& L templates (tx @Ftoolan )
momstravaganza RT SmartBitchesThat’s what I think is happening with digital shopping options: tags & keywords redefine genrel labels
mikecane Browsing in online stores is still too slow! #followreader (glares at Fictionwise and just about all others!)
SmartBitches Speaking only for me, I did a lot of impulse try/buy with Kindle sample feature. easy to get 3 chapters, then buy
redrobinreader IMO even w/in modern definition there is ambiguity re who defines (pubs, readers, scholars)
galleysmith How can publishers include authors in the process of tagging their genre? Or is that even important?
ftoolan #followreader this issue is why google will win in selling e-books. they index content, not metadata
sruszala @ftoolan it’s so true. content indexing will always trump metadata.
ftoolan The other problem with user generated tags is measuring performance #followreader, how will pub know what to invest in?
jane_l @happysurprise lol. I just think content based searches may end up w/ not results u want i.e., thinking
happysurprise In my experience, readers are the best at recommending books I’ll like and buy. I love the user “lists” at amazon
janoda .@SheilaRuth Comp.search like in libr.might work in bookstores too. If they all got on WorldCat the tags could even be global
SheilaRuth @janoda I like that idea of making WorldCat avail in & include bookstores. Could be an Amazon antidote.

Whether there’s a place/purpose for categorizing books by ethnicity, race, sexual orientation, gender, etc.:

markrevans @KatMeyer absolutely. no right answer. depends on selection and customer base. i tend to not like breaking out by ethnicity
jane_l @KatMeyer Some like the niche marketing but others want desegregation for the books. Online it cld be done both ways
janoda As a non American, I always found it hard to grasp why there should be African American Romance. Do they love differently? I’d just throw them all together under romance, don’t think colour or culture should matter genre-wise
pussreboots @janoda I am American and the separate African American genres boggles my mind too.
markrevans .@janoda people like to identify with protagonists, esp in romance. they like books that speak more directly to them
SheilaRuth @janoda I completely agree on African American romance. Why does it have to be a separate category?

And a Lesson on What Constitutes the Romance Genre:

jane_l @Nobilis but what abt reader expectations. I.e. most rom rdrs expect HEA. Pubs R using label but not delivering the HEA
jennsbookshelf @SmartBitches I agree. Way too many books are labeled “romance.” What makes a romance?
SmartBitches #followreader Simple rule: if there ain’t a happy ending for the protagonists, it ain’t a romance. Fuck with that? Mutiny.
markrevans also, no adultery in classic romance genre



And last but not least, a very helpful stab at renaming genres to make them Twitter-Friendly from @SmartBitches:

SmartBitches #followreader For random enjoyment: twitter friendly genre renaming,1: Mystery=WHO? Thriller=WHAT? Crime Fiction=OUCH! True Crime=NOWAI!
More twitter genre : Romance=YES! Selfhelp: NO! Psych: Huh? LIterary Fiction: OPRAH! Fantasy: WOW! Science Fiction: 01101111!